Opus Director Mark Anthony Green Wrote A 350-Page Cult Manual We'll Never Get To Read [Exclusive Interview]

At a time where entertainment companies are making increasingly dubious choices, it's commendable that A24 not only stays committed to releasing their films in theaters, but also to fostering new talent. Case in point on both counts: The theatrical-only release of this weekend's "Opus," which happens to be the debut film from writer/director Mark Anthony Green. The opportunity certainly doesn't seem to be lost on Green, a former journalist at GQ, who doesn't dither away his shot at a debut by making a muted film. Instead, "Opus" is a rollocking, fascinating, divisive horror satire, a movie with a ton of topics on its mind that also features an all-star ensemble cast and several original pop tunes crafted by no less than music superstars Nile Rodgers and The-Dream (not to mention sung by future "Fantastic Four: The First Steps" actor John Malkovich, which alone would be a draw).

The many shades of "Opus" are a lot to take in on a first watch, as I mentioned in my review of the movie out of its premiere at the Sundance Film Festival. That's partially because Green has so much on his mind as a filmmaker, as well as the passion and drive to match. I recently had the opportunity to sit down with Green for a robust chat about his experiences making "Opus," his commitment to building a credible fictional world for the film, his addition of Ariel Ecton (Ayo Edebiri) to the pantheon of heroic cinematic journalists, his need to make movies, and the apology he still owes Beyoncé (which, if you're reading, Beyoncé, is included below).

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.

I want to start at the end because, not to give away spoilers of course, but I just wanted to say how enamored I am with the way that you structured this script and this film. I love an ending that recontextualizes everything I've seen previously. I was wondering if there were any movies or filmmakers that inspired you to make such a bold choice, and was it something you had any pushback on while making it, or was it something you were able to sell to folks easily?

I think in filming, the process, there's a healthy amount of pushback throughout it all, through every decision. So I don't think there was an unhealthy amount of pushback, especially on the ending. I'm trying to think of a film ... somebody asked me the other day, what was the first horror film that I watched? And in doing all these interviews, there's an enormous self-reflection process that I did not expect. Bill, brother in Christ, it has been quite the experience. The first horror film I ever watched was "Thriller," and it scared me, and I was a kid, and then my great-grandfather took us to a baseball game and there was a full moon and I was afraid at the game. And so I've been thinking about "Thriller" a lot, and the moment when [Michael Jackson] looks back and he's still got the demon in him or whatever it is with the eyes and the iconic thing, I think that was the first time I ever saw a film have a satisfying ending, but there was more to the story, if that makes sense.

The ending of "Opus," my goal is that I hope that it's very satisfying, but I want you to ask certain questions. And if I gave the answers, or if it felt like the story came to an end, like a screeching halt, I don't think that you'd ask those questions. So it's a really fine line of, it's a dance, but the ending is one of the things I'm the most proud of and it does seem like it's a thing that people positively are responding to, which has made me super happy. All the arguments and fights in writing and in editing was well worth it.

What made you want to set the film in or regarding the music industry specifically? Was it partially because of the rise of stan culture in the present day or the cult-like power that rock stars of the past used to hold over their fans? Was it some combination of the two? What inspired you to go that direction?

It's a little bit of both of those points, which are really smart points, but mostly I wanted to pick something where it felt good. So part of my issue with tribalism, which is a thing that spans well past entertainment, is that it's so divisive. I've never met you, Bill. You've never met me. Where are you from?

I was born in Massachusetts, moved to Michigan when I was 10.

So let's say Michigan-raised, and I'm from the Midwest. We might be sitting next to each other in a movie theater. I'm probably older than you, so we're different ages from different places, and we both love horror films, but outside of that, we're just strangers. We're strangers in experience. And I wanted to make something that felt like if we bobbed our heads together and we looked away at the same time, then maybe we would, through this very fun, wild ride experience, we would not be so reticent to have a conversation with one another, to ask a question, and for you to have a different answer than me, and for me to not be just repulsed by you, because we went through this experience.

And I felt like making the film as fun as possible is the most effective way to hopefully achieve this goal. And so that's why I chose pop music, which created the issue of having to actually create pop music, which is an expensive, very difficult endeavor, but Nile and Dream and John [Malkovich] and everybody, all the engineers and the crazy folks at A24 that let me do this, the songs are so good. And that experience, I think, is elevated to a very fun place because of it.

I consider "Opus" to be amongst a group of films about fictional pop stars or fictional bands where the songs are legitimately as good as they have to be to sell that this is a major pop star in this fictional world. And you spoke a little bit about it already, but I was wondering what the process was in terms of getting those songs right, because it's not just that they have to sound good, they have to be legitimately good, all that. But also I'm thinking, of course, about the listening party scene, and that scene works on several levels once you know everything that's going on. So was there that consideration when they were going into the songwriting, too?

Ah, it's so hard. It is one of the hardest things in making this film. Because you have no money, so you got to convince people that make millions and millions of dollars to do this for no money. And Dream and Nile were working with Beyoncé at the time, so I had to take time away from Beyoncé. Beyoncé, if you're reading this, I'm very sorry. And so that in itself, just to get them to say they'll try, is like damn near impossible. And then you have to get them to make these songs in your deadline. And also, they have to take direction. You got to send songs back that they love and be like, "No, it needs to do this," or "It has to fit within the story," Because at the end of the day, the story is king, that's my boss.

And then if you can do all of that, which is damn near impossible, you got to get the actor to go in and for the way I shot it, to do it before the movie, before pre-production, and to go in and to sing these songs. And they have to do it. And it was really important to me that the first thing John do as Moretti was the music. So all of these things, all of these little baby miracles, have to happen in order for you to pull this off. And they did. And we did. It's one of the most ambitious things about the film, but I just am so deeply grateful for everybody. And I listen to the songs constantly, still.

The cult in the film, the Levellists, really do seem to have a lot of specificity to their look, to their behavior, to their practices. So how did you go about that process in terms of getting them down? Did you do a lot of research into cults?

I would say that the cult research was the least enjoyable part of making this film. You study cults, and this was 2020, so I had entirely too much time to do the very, very deep, all-consuming dive. And I did it for months. And what I charged myself with was being able to ... I wrote a 350-page bible, so to speak, "The Meditations of Level." So I wanted to make sure that I knew what this religion believed and their practices, their dogmas, how that can be used to exploit somebody, what about them is desirable, whatever similarities that they have to other cults or religions and the differences, and why that would be attractive to Moretti.

It's just that you see how so many people's lives have been ruined by some of these bad actors. You also see why religion is still such a dominant force in the human experience and how statistically, humanity has never been less religious than it is today. So we are becoming less and less religious as a species. And part of my thesis is I think we're replacing the human want to belong to something bigger than ourselves. I think the rise of tribalism is because of that. There's nothing more human than to want to be part of something that's bigger than just being human. And I think that has made us a extremely vulnerable as a society. Where are you at, Bill?

L.A.

L.A. Okay. Yeah. So I think this is a global pandemic, tribalism, but I also ... it felt like the religion substitute, that felt like a very visceral, fun thing to explore. So I did.

I love that you also mentioned that book, because I remember you were discussing that at Sundance. I was lucky enough to be at that premiere, and as you mention it now, I have to ask, will any of us ever get to see that book?

No. That's all. I wrote it with the exploitable parts and the certain ceremonious things that could be violent and I love movies, especially horror movies for the escapism of it. I'm sure you do too, right? We love these films, slasher films. What was the one that came out last year? "A Violent Nature?"

"In a Violent Nature," yeah.

Yeah. I saw that in a full theater and we had so much fun. No part of me wants any part of that to ever be real. And I think one of if not the biggest power in movies is the fantastical, fantasy element of them. So as a human, there's a responsibility. There might be four people that read that and think, "Man, what a smart, dedicated filmmaker he was. Look at all this work he put into it." But if even one person got half of a bad idea from reading it, I would be heartbroken. So whatever good could come from it, the risk of the bad is just not really worth it for me.

Another aspect that I really wanted to talk about with you is the character of Ariel. I mean, not only is Ayo fantastic as always, but as a journalist, I was like, "yes, a journalist hero again!" Because there used to be quite a few films made with the journalist hero or protagonist, and I feel like we haven't had one, other than "Superman" and Lois Lane and all that, since I don't know, "Spotlight" from 2015? So I would love to hear about you guys conceiving that character and working with Ayo.

Working with Ayo is a dream. She's so talented, so funny. She's my ideal protagonist, this beautiful Black woman. She's also from Massachusetts. Yeah, Ayo's from Boston. So that's a dream day at the office for anybody, if you get the chance to work with her. 

For me, the journalism, I am deeply pro-journalists and pro-media, and I thought Ariel's character — one of my favorite moments in the film is when she's walking through the bullpen in the beginning. You could see so much of her swagger. She looks sad because she's frustrated, but she's totally in her own skin and it's such a hard job being a journalist, and often a thankless job. And this film, I think what it does — it's funny, it bummed me out. There was a critic who read it as anti-journalism. It's not my job to tell somebody how to interpret this film. If anything, it's just my job to listen. But Mark Anthony, the person, for sure just doesn't think that or feel that in any way, shape, or form. I proudly did that job for 13 years.

I think what "Opus" does to me is it highlights how difficult, Bill, your job is. In reporting a story, a lot of times you are going to follow the truth. And right now, without saying any names, the people who are providing us the quote, unquote, "truth" are some of the most corrupt people ever. So it becomes more and more and more difficult to decipher if a truth that you're putting out into the world is the truth. And as somebody who sat in that seat, and you as somebody that sits in that seat right now, it's a bit like, I don't think that your job has ever been more difficult.

So I think every journalist is a f—ing hero. Even the ones that don't like my film, even the ones that they might report or have opinions about the world that I really disagree with, but that's what they believe and they tell the truth. I think that it is one of the most important institutions that we have. So yeah, I'm stoked and honored to add Ariel in the cinematic pantheon of journalists and put her up there with "Zodiac" and "Spotlight," but also "Nightcrawler," which is an incredible film. And obviously that dude shows the very rare, awful bad actor in local, salacious ... I don't know what to even call what Jake Gyllenhaal does in that film. I just know that I loved that movie. But yeah, but I'm honored to put her in that.

You clearly have so much passion and knowledge and intelligence, and unfortunately it is your first film and you're entering cinema at a time which I personally feel is precarious for the entire industry. Where do you stand in terms of your inspiration when it comes to making films? In terms of cinema as a medium, what inspires you to keep going?

One, I don't feel like I have a choice. The problem is, there is this assumption that directors make films for money, which is not true. Directors make films for fame or any of the things that come with it — also not true. It is one of the hardest creative jobs on the planet, and you have to really want to do this. And the problem is that if you do it, you know that nothing in the world is going to make you feel that way. I made a short film eight years ago and I went into debt making it. Like bad debt. Not cute, "oh, this is a funny story." I went into debt making that movie. And never had a better time. I was never more stressed out. I got my first gray hair, and fell out with people that I'd known forever. Never had a better time. 

I never felt like making "Opus" was an option. I do not feel like making my next film is an option. I feel like it is a devotion, and I'm deeply devoted to becoming the best filmmaker that I can be. And if I spend the rest of my life trying to make movies, trying to make them in a way that is deeply personal, with integrity and thoughtful and original, and then I die, I know that I will be happy and satisfied.

So whatever the industry does, which I hope it all gets figured out, and I hope that every director is compensated and loved, and all of the things, but whether that happens or it doesn't happen, my ass will be trying to get to set to make movies. And there's something liberating about the prison of that. There's something deeply liberating about not feeling like I have a choice, but I'm one of the lucky people that found why I think I was put on this planet, and I just need to focus on that. I just need to focus on getting better at that. I just need to focus on doing that as much and as thoughtfully and as impactfully as possible. 

That's where my head and my heart is. And as a movie lover, which we share, I just think that the boogeyman will always lose and that film will never die, and that we will figure this s— the f— out.

"Opus" is in theaters now.