How Joaquin Phoenix Really Feels About Joker 2's Controversial Ending

Warning: This article contains major spoilers for the ending of "Joker: Folie à Deux."

The smoke has cleared, the dust has settled, and fans everywhere are taking a very mature and healthy approach to dealing with their uncomfortable feelings about every controversial thing in "Joker: Folie à Deux." At least, that's the narrative I'm telling myself while strapped to a straitjacket in Arkham Asylum. (Apparently with Wi-Fi and a working laptop, oddly enough! Maybe Gotham City ain't as bad as it's made out to be, folks.) Out here in the real world, the continued fallout from director Todd Phillips' divisive sequel couldn't possibly be more different ... or more entertaining, for those of us who tend to enjoy chaos. /Film's Bill Bria reviewed the movie and called it "the most compelling comic book movie of the year," so it's not like there are no defenders at all. For the most part, however, fans are demanding answers for what might go down as the biggest box office flop of 2024.

At least one key member of the "Joker" creative team might have something worthwhile to add to the conversation, however. Star Joaquin Phoenix isn't exactly the easiest A-lister to get a read on, but IGN managed to get the enigmatic actor to open up about his thoughts on what went down in the film — particularly that explosive ending. Those who've seen it (and, once again, you should read no further if you haven't) know that after Arthur Fleck's trial gets interrupted by a bomb, his short-lived escape ends with him back in Arkham Asylum and awaiting the inevitable sentence for his crimes. Before that can happen, however, another inmate calls him over, anxiously tells him a long-winded joke, and then stabs him in the gut multiple times before letting him bleed out on the floor.

The shocking twist might've rubbed fanboys the wrong way, but Phoenix interprets this moment very differently.

In retrospect, "Joker: Folie à Deux" ends pretty much the only way it could have: with Arthur Fleck dead and gone while the Joker legacy lives on. These two movies always seemed to treat the clown persona as something much, much bigger than the man underneath the makeup, and that final scene certainly was one way to underline that point. Yet, for all the viewers who felt like that was the final straw, one person who didn't have a negative reaction at all would be the star of the show, Joaquin Phoenix. While talking to IGN, the actor revealed his own unique perspective into his character's final moments and how, as a performer, he ultimately interpreted what writer/director Todd Phillips was going for:

"There's a warmth in that scene, which is nice. That's all that I was thinking about that I was after, is here's this young man who's telling me a joke and he's nervous to tell me the joke, I can tell that he's nervous, and I'm going to hear him out. And it's a pretty good setup."

For most people, any "warmth" would have to do with that blood oozing out of Arthur's body, but Phoenix ain't like most people. From a certain point of view, one can kind of see what he means. He plays the scene in one of the rare moments where Arthur shows compassion and even empathy, patiently waiting for this stuttering inmate to get this joke off his chest rather than telling him to get lost. As for that "setup" he refers to, that might be referencing the last punchline where Arthur gets what he "deserves" and ends in his grisly death. As for Todd Phillips, he has a similar opinion on what happens here.

Who among us could've predicted such a bold and decisive finale in "Joker: Folie à Deux," not to mention the apparent rise of the "real" Joker? In the movie's final moments, we can just glimpse the other inmate (who's left unnamed, but is credited as "Young Inmate" and played by actor Connor Storrie) laughing malevolently after committing his murderous deed, carving a Glasgow smile onto his own face as a finishing touch. It's dark and disturbing, to be sure, but director Todd Phillips isn't focusing on that aspect of it. In the same interview with IGN, he offered his own two cents on Arthur's personal journey:

"I think Arthur has found peace with the idea, with the struggle that it's okay to be yourself. And that's really what he's always struggled with, you know what I mean? I like to think he died at peace in a way being himself."

Again, he's not wrong! Thanks to Phoenix's performance, it's apparent that Arthur himself seems much less tortured and self-destructive than he's been for the vast majority of both movies by the time the sequel reaches its bloody conclusion. For example, moments before his death, Arthur is told he has a visitor waiting to see him. We never find out exactly who that is, but Arthur clearly believes it might be Lady Gaga's Lee Quinzel ... even after she all but disowned him. According to Phillips, that's just another example of how far Fleck has come and the "optimism" within him:

"I always think that's such a beautiful moment where it's like, Arthur still has hope. I think Joaquin is so beautiful in that scene. It's such a small nothing. I mean, beyond the death thing. That moment where he's looking at the kid and he's kind of giving the kid a polite laugh in the setup. He's showing appreciation for the comedy and appreciation for putting yourself out there. You know what I mean? Something nobody ever did for him in the first movie in some ways."

Obviously, the vast majority of folks won't have the same takeaway from the movie as Phillips and Phoenix, but that's the beauty of movies! "Joker: Folie à Deux" is now playing in theaters.