M3GAN Star Jen Van Epps Had A Blast Fighting That Killer Doll [Exclusive Interview]

This article contains major spoilers for "M3GAN."

If you couldn't already tell, the world has been set ablaze with "M3GAN" fever. Not only has the sophomore effort from "Housebound" director Gerard Johnstone earned nearly $100 million at the box office against a $12 million budget, but has earned plenty of critical acclaim, with /Film's Jeff Ewing calling it "a horror comedy blast" in his review. Whether it was the meme-worthy dance that led the marketing team to glory, or Akela Cooper's smart screenplay, "M3GAN" had all the makings of a hit. On top of having the involvement of James Wan, the Blumhouse flick also featured a pretty spectacular cast with Allison Williams ("Get Out"), Violet McGraw ("Doctor Sleep"), Brian Jordan Alvarez ("The Gay and Wondrous Life of Caleb Gallo"), and Ronnie Chieng ("Crazy Rich Asians").

You also have Jenna Davis and Amie Donald, both of whom gave a considerable contribution to bringing M3GAN's deadly personality to life. Among those names, however, is "Don't Make Me Go" star Jen Van Epps as Tess, a Funki toy roboticist involved in the creation of the killer AI caregiver. I had the great pleasure of talking with Van Epps, who tackled everything from working with a good support system on set, to fighting a killer doll, to whether Chucky would even survive an encounter with M3GAN herself.

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.

First off, congrats on the movie. It's a mega hit. M3GAN's a star. How has that all been, seeing the reactions to the movie?

Incredible. I mean, honestly, a friend asked me if I knew that it would be the juggernaut that it is, and I was like, "Nope." Big fat nope. It was a delightful script. And after understanding who Gerard was watching "Housebound," that's when I was like, "Oh, this will be fun." And obviously if you get an opportunity to work with Allison Williams. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I'll take that. And Ronny [Chieng] and Brian [Jordan Alvarez] and yeah, it was just something fun to do. I happen to be an actor living in New Zealand and it's like I won the lottery. What? It's like I won the lottery, really.

I was going to say, because you're working with such a motley crew of people, you've got Gerard Johnstone, you've got Akela Cooper's script, James Wan, and Allison Williams. What interested you most about working with this collection of famous horror people?

Well, I mean, I have to say, first off to that, I'm not a horror girl.

No?

I'm not. I'm not. No, I scare easily. But again, I mean, I've watched "Get Out," I've watched "Us," I've watched those types of, I think, horror movies that in my mind might have a broader message. Those type of things that... Those things appeal to me. And knowing, obviously Blumhouse was responsible for "Get Out." When I saw that, I literally was like, "Well, I would be a fool." And then you see Allison Williams. Again, I love "Girls" [laughs]. What person doesn't? Like you would've had to have been dead inside. No, I don't know. But I was just really happy to be a part of it, or am a part of it.

When you were reading Akela's script, what was it about Tess that interested you the most?

I think what interested me the most about Tess, I just really liked what she was there to do. She really was the voice of reason, the moral conscience of not just, I think for the audience, not for just Gemma's character, but being able to play a character that's hyper aware, that's really fun. Tess is someone that's, in some ways, apart from the obtuseness of this M3GAN creation, I found it really interesting. And then, also, I get to fight a robotic doll. I mean, honestly, I could have been killed off and still done it. I was like, "What?" Yeah. So for me, it was just a really funny, fun script. And then Gerard did edits as well, and so a lot of his humor is in there as well. And so like I said, after I watched "Housebound," I was like, "Come on, this is going to be such a good time."

It really is. Do you have any particular favorite memories from when you were on set?

Yeah, that's a good question. Well, honestly, I think my favorite memory is just how much I just really enjoyed everyone. I truly, truly liked everyone. I love Brian. Brian is a very dear person in my life, as well as my family's life. Alison's incredible, Ronnie. It just felt like a group effort. We're making this in quotes, "little film." I felt really bonded to them because there was no ego. I think that that's something that transcended everything. In general. New Zealand itself, I think lends to that because in the landscape of Aotearoa, New Zealand, people are more subdued. So anyway, I just found everyone really charming and great.

I think one thing, and I feel like I talked to somebody else about this, but something I found really fun, or not fun, but well, one thing that was really funny was, a lot of directors do this, but they get on the God mic. There's like a microphone, and you'll be doing something, and then Gerard will get on the mic and use his really kind and wonderfully, I find soothing and subdued kiwi accent, just get on the mic, and give direction. That was actually the first time for me, I had worked with the director that had the God mic, and so I didn't mind it, but it was funny the first time I'm like, "Wait, where's that voice coming from? Who is this?" And now I've worked with a few people that have used the mic.

But actually one thing that I really appreciated, in the scene where Brian's character, Cole, gets strung up by M3GAN. In that scene, it was very sweet. All producers just checked in on me to make sure that it wasn't traumatizing for me, because with my background, I'm half Black, half Chinese, it could be very reminiscent of a lynching or something like that. And so it was really kind that Alison, Judson [Scott], and Adam [Hendricks] checked in to be like, "How are you feeling? Does this feel, is this intense? Or how do you feel emotionally?" And I'm like, "I'm okay." Again, it's a step into the world. For me, it was really about Tess saving her friend, but I just found that really generous, really generous, open, spirited.

It's really good to be able to work with such a good support system.

Yeah, exactly.

When you're doing something as intense as the scene where you might be killed off by the lead slasher. Was there any point in the development of this movie that there was a chance that Tess didn't make it out of Funki headquarters?

That is such a good question. If there was that chance, I didn't know about it, and I'm like, now I'm thinking, let me think back through these drafts that I saw. No, I mean, everything I read, I made it out [laughs]. She survived.

See another day.

Yeah. She lives to see another day. Whether Akela has a little side script I never saw, first draft, Tess and Cole wiped down into smithereens, I don't know. I never saw it.

It's been talked about that "M3GAN" was initially more violent than what ended up in the theatrical cut, and there's been talks of an unrated version. Do you recall any moments that were maybe shot, but that didn't make the final cut of the movie?

Well, I'm not going to say anything in case they do something, spilling the beans and, you know, people sign contracts. So I'm going to say that there are juicy bits that I would like to see that, for the rating purposes, had to get cut out. And also, there's just a lot of swearing that had to get cut out.

Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apparently with PG-13, you're allowed one F word, and it has to be in a way that's non-sexual. And so if you remember, it was when Jack's, oh gosh, what's Jack Cassidy's character's name? Oh, my brain, Brandon. He says, "F*** you, Karen" [laughs]. Now I'm going to have to look that up, who was beautifully played by Renee Lyons, who I know as well. There's a lot of expletives that were cut out, especially from Ronny as David, which were hilarious. So that would be fun to see. But all the juicy bits, Matt, lips are sealed.

Okay. I won't get you in trouble.

That's right.

We don't want that [laughs]. Now, how were you first introduced to M3GAN, whether it was the puppet, or Amie Donald on set. Were you shown any concept art beforehand?

Yes, I was shown some concept art, but I don't think that prepares you for when you see the actual doll in person because the thing is, I did meet Amie, who I love. She's great. Me and her mom are friends, and we've hung out with my daughter as well. She's just a lovely young woman, and her mom's awesome. The apple does not fall far from the tree, but truly seeing the M3GAN doll puppet that the [Adrien] Morot team built, it's incredible. She's beautiful and really just, you're just thinking, this thing is so uncannily real and also yet so foreign because there's this, well, she's a doll. I mean, I'm like, well, she's a doll and she's meant to kind of look. Yeah. She's meant to, I guess, meant to look human adjacent, but also have that quality of, kind of like an "American Girl" doll as people have already noted.

One of my favorite gags that made me laugh just as hard the second time, was when you're talking with Gemma and you're in the viewing room with you and Cole, and then it cuts to the wide shot of M3GAN wrapped up in the plastic.

Yes.

Which moment in the movie makes you laugh the hardest?

Oh, I mean, definitely. There's just too many, but the moment when the Brandon character tells his mom like, "F*** you." That cracks me up. Obviously, the "Titanium" moment, the moment where, oh my gosh, there's just so many. There's parts when Allison, just things that Allison, when she's just so dry and so oblivious that were cracking me up. You know, when she's just like, "Yep, you can play with this," and just stabs the box. There's just so many moments by different people that just make me laugh. Obviously, Ronny's iconic moment where he says, this is the... "Remember this the moment when we kicked Hasbro in the dick?" Yeah. There's so many. That's what's so great about this movie. It's not just, there was one little laugh that was completely spoiled in the trailers. There were so many hilarious moments, when Millen Baird was like, "I know I shouldn't laugh," as the police officer.

Oh, brilliant.

So funny. And that speaks to Kiwi humor, and I'm so glad that people really got that, because I think Gerard really infused a lot of that kind of dry and very subdued humor into a lot of the moments. And then when, the other part was when Kira Josephson's character, oh, what is her? She's the teacher at the camp, and she sees M3GAN. She's like, "Jesus Christ." There's just so many little moments like that just crack me up.

Well, speaking of which, yeah. One of M3GAN's more useful functions is that she's able to silently weave in and out of scenes without anybody noticing, like when she's bringing the tissues to the therapist. Was there ever a moment where someone stuck M3GAN in a place that made you jump or anyone else jump?

Well, you know that scene where she's wrapped up in the bubble wrap and taped up, so efficiently by the Gemma character, when literally, I know what's about to happen when she falls, I was like, "Oh my God." Even though I know that these things will happen, even watching the movie, that's the thing that cracks me up where I was like, "I know this is about to happen." I still was like, "Oh God."

It's the anticipation of just...

Anticipation! So that was definitely a moment where I was like, "Oh, geez." She never creeped up on the Tess character, so I never had that moment, but definitely her falling over on the couch made me jump because we didn't know when it was going to happen. There's someone behind there making her fall over, and so it's always going to be slightly behind, slightly before slightly, the beat will be slightly different.

I want to circle back around to the actors playing M3GAN, because Jenna Davis's pitch perfect vocal performance, it's incredible how much she is able to make you feel for this character, and then she just slips into something so horrifying. She says something so terrifying that you're feeling conflicting emotions.

Yeah.

What was it like? But the thing that got me was the physicality of Amie Donald.

Oh, yeah. Amie is a phenomenal kid and dancer. I mean, she is a trained dancer. You go into her Instagram and you scroll back pre-M3GAN watching what she could do, even at eight, nine years old, you could see that she's an incredible artist, and it's not just her physicality, but it's the depth of emotion that you can't believe an eight-year-old has. So even though we never see her face, you can feel that. She's just so diligent and really focused. When the camera's on and she's given direction, boom. She just does it. She's an incredible, little human being. I mean, Violet [McGraw] too, obviously that goes without saying. We're talking about the M3GAN doll. But yeah, I mean, I think she was just able to really physicalize M3GAN perfectly. And obviously I think as a child, it's not like there was a person of small stature that's an adult inside there.

So I think just naturally a mix between her professionalism as an incredibly trained dancer, and then also just as a child who naturally has that energy, I think it does exude beyond the mask, and then also the Morot team with what they did with animatronics. It's incredible. A lot of it is really practical physical M3GAN, with Jenna's voice on top, with Amie moving, or the puppeteers, like Paul Lewis, moving her body. It really was a collective moment to bring M3GAN to life. Yeah, I mean, it's incredible!

Actually, I would have to say watching what the Morot team did with the animatronics on her face was really incredible. And there's like this little gamer joystick, and they're operating her face with this joystick. So it's like, action, can you make her look surprised? It's insane. And that they can do that from behind something, watching a monitor and hoping to get it right on cue. It's incredible.

It is. Now one of the funnier bits of M3GAN's routines is the way she has to remind Cady to do certain little tasks around the house, and especially by the third time that she doesn't flush the toilet. She just is like, "Cady, flush the toilet."

Yes.

Do you have any daily tasks that you feel like you would need a M3GAN to get on you to perform?

Oh my God, like, what couldn't I have her come and help me. First, get off Instagram, go do something else. Honestly, I hate doing floors. And someone interviewed me and I already said that, but literally, I hate doing floors and dusting. It would just be really practical things like that. Oh, a massage. I mean, oh, wait, that's so strange [laughs]. She's like a doll, that's like a child. That's horrible. Oh my God. Oh my goodness. I didn't mean it like that, but I said that I'm like, that's not, that would be inappropriate. But yeah, daily tasks like cleaning and "get off your phone."

Yes. Or else she'll creepily sing to you.

Exactly! Which is incredible. I mean, honestly, Jenna, really, it was so pitch perfect. I just couldn't, because I hadn't met her, and the first time I saw it was at the premiere, and I just was like, "Wow. She nailed it." It's like syrupy, sweet, sinister, all wrapped in one. Even in these moments where it feels like, "Oh, she's being sweet." There's always just this undertone of mayhem, and it's incredible.

Exactly. That transition from talking about Brandon, the kid in the park, going like, "Oh, where he's going, it's not a good place." And then transitioning into "Titanium," is such a perfect blend that you really have to be in tune with the absurdity of this character. But she plays it so well.

And I would say, as an actor, I firmly believe it's just committing and not putting yourself as the viewer. This is silly, but really from, again, I can't speak to her process, but if I ever got to voice M3GAN, which no one wants to hear this voice, I don't even want [laughs]. But you know what I mean, it would definitely be, you just have to say it's serious. It's all the most comedic people I can think of. "I Love Lucy" is still one of my favorite shows. It's funny because she really believes in that moment. She's not a part of the joke, she's just living her reality. So she just does that so beautifully. It doesn't feel like she's in on the joke. It feels like she's serious.

She's wholly committed to being the caregiver to Cady, no matter what happens.

No matter what. I mean, look, who doesn't need a best friend that'll go to bat with you or take a bat to somebody's head. I mean, you know?

I've got to ask, how did it feel watching M3GAN become such a viral internet sensation after that first trailer dropped?

It was crazy. I mean, again, sometimes viral sensations, they come and go. It could have been a month later, and then everyone's like, "Eh, the movie's here." But the staying power of this little monster that was created, it's mind blowing. She's, I think, forever going to be part of horror, the horror legacy. No one's ever going to talk about horror, especially in relation to horror dolls, without mentioning her name as the supreme one. Let's be real.

M3GAN and Chucky have been going at each other on social media.

Having beef, they beefing.

Of course! I think that could prove to be an interesting one-on-one, and given that you survive at the end of the movie, of course, the little twitch in Gemma's..

Oh, in the Elsie

The Elsie gives the indication that she's not going anywhere. And of course, she's going to be possibly looking for some revenge. So if you were to recruit your champion to help you against her, which killer doll would you want to have by your side?

Oh my goodness, man, which killer doll? I mean, to be, it would to be Chucky because he's just like, again, I am not a horror person, but I know I'm not. I know that he's a funny little guy. I just think it would be the funniest situation just watching these two banter. Literally, you don't even have to do anything. Just put them in a room. They don't have to kill each other. It would be really hilarious. I mean, he's like, what, two feet tall? I mean, he's not going to win, let's be honest. But...

Is that a challenge you're sending out to Chucky?

What? No [laughs].

No?

I was like, no, come find me. No, don't come find me. I would be terrified. I would not be able to sleep. I don't want to summon all the evil dolls to my home.

No, but you've cemented yourself in the legacy of the latest, and one of the more iconic killer dolls now, because M3GAN's a name. It's barely been a month, and the movie is already a smash hit.

It's incredible. I couldn't have dreamed this up. I'm an actor who's been at it for a very long time with varying degrees of success for a long time, until I moved to Aotearoa, New Zealand. And so to be a part of a movie that just has, it's not just going to be a flash in the pan, I think it really will become the hit that it's proven to be. It continues to break box office numbers or expectations, and to then be behind "Avatar" both weekends. It's insane. It's mind boggling.

You're starting off 2023 just right.

That's right.

One more thing I want to ask you is, so you said you've worked with the puppet on set. How were you able to work with it? Did they have the dialogue recorded through it, or was it something you just kind of had to act against?

Well, so in the movie, the thing is, I generally was interfacing with M3GAN when she was deactivated. So she never talked to me, in the movie. That's not true, in the movie, when we're watching, when she has the meltdown and she's kind of hairless, and David comes in and he is like, "What's going, what's the cyborg puppet show? Put that in the closet." That's the only time in the movie where I am speaking to her in the movie. In "real Tess life," I'm sure we would've interfaced a lot, but as far as the movie goes, that's the only moment. So that was animatronics and that was crazy, because again, they had to make her face do like, I know this is an interview so I'm trying...they had to make her contort her face on cue with a joystick and a couple buttons. So that was really, technology blows my mind.

It's incredible.

It's incredible. Honestly, I cannot understate what an amazing job the Morot team did. Which by the way, Adrien Morot, if you didn't know, is up for an Academy Award for transforming Brendan Fraser in "The Whale."

It's incredible. Between killer dolls and the suit, he's got it covered.

Exactly.

It was wonderful talking to you.

Right. I hope that was good and fine and made sense, and you'll make me sound more coherent. Right, Matt?

Of course! Like I said, we don't want to get you in trouble, especially with Universal. It hasn't been officially announced, but it seems likely that we may get a sequel at some point?

From your lips to the goddess of ears. Let me tell you. I hope. That would be a dream. Like I said, this has just been beyond, even just before all the hubbub, I was just already excited that I got to do it. When my agent called me and said, I was on vacation, and I literally, actually, you could talk, I did this audition, and I literally walked out and I was like, "That was terrible. I had the wrong sides. I had the wrong script, and Gerard was so sweet. He's like, "just hold it." Because in New Zealand, unlike in the States, you memorize everything. So I had memorized the completely wrong thing, and he's like "just hold the sides." You can put this in there. It's a really funny story. So I'm like, "Okay," and literally at that point I was like, "F*** it, this is not mine," but I already understand who the character is and I understand the story, so we'll just do what I have to do."

I walked out and one of my good friends was going in for the callback, and I was like, "Well, she just got the part." And then that was it. I literally was like, "Eh, that's okay." I totally blew that. And then weeks later I'm on vacation and my agent's like, "So how do you feel about working with Allison Williams?" And I was like, "What?" Mind blown. I literally thought I screwed the pooch. You can put that in print [laughs].

NOTE: Not too long after this interview was conducted, an official announcement was made for "M3GAN 2.0," which will bring back Allison Williams, Violet McGraw, and screenwriter Akela Cooper, for a January 17, 2025 release date. When asked for comment, Van Epps couldn't confirm her return at this time. "As far as "M3GAN 2.0" goes, I have no official word on the return of 'Tess." Hoping, she'll be back and get to do some serious ass kicking," says Van Epps.

"M3GAN" is now playing in theaters.